I totally agree. I have been answering Cafe Arts calls for artists and other juried show prompts and as you mentioned, they are a total crap shoot dependent on the subjective tastes of the curator/juror. As I work in multi media and use alternative printing processes, the digital image I submit in no way represents the actual image which requires a physical presence. I try not to get too excited if I get in or too upset if I don’t. I merely use the call as a way to push me out of whatever comfort zone or creative rut I’ve gotten myself into. It also forces me to look at what I have already created.
The last time we tried this it was not as successful as we had hoped (really bad timing for the most part during Covid lockdowns) but the one thing we did do was ask for actual prints rather than judging a print from a digital file. The logistics of that were not for the faint hearted.
I can imagine. I remember the juried shows we did in university galleries in the old days where everything was shipped in , judged and reshipped back. Some calls are explicit that you don’t get your work back unless you pay for it. I always want mine back.
We're working on a few things that we hope will serve as a venue and be enjoyable to this community both remote and eventually in person that are more of a celebration of print and useful in more ways that one.
My thought on this is the most fair way is to have a panel of photographers do the judging as they do in the PPofA. It is a peer review of what is considered to be the best work of other professionals. When you are in competition with your peers you really find out if your work stands up. When you submit to a competition, you are putting your best work out there whether it is an open judging or with certain criteria of subject matter. The saying, "iron sharpens iron" is very apropo when it comes to submitting your images. I like your idea of a curation committee to put together the best show for the viewing audience.
Excellent post today. My experience with photo contests consists entirely of the one sponsored by the Florida Camera Club Council. If the image does not include fins, feathers or feet, it does not "score" well. And I find the scoring strange in that winners are recognized on the percentage of images scoring at a certain level. For example, the top 5% of images that score above X are awarded blue, then the next 5%, etc. While each image is judged by three people, only the average score is reported. And no critique is provided so the participant can develop their craft. Not sure why I continue participating.
I look forward to hearing about your ideas for this community.
Ps. Without a lot of context, In a couple of our workshops that are highly dependent on the editorial process way before producing the final output, we provide an exercise to the participants to curate/edit/select a set of image out of OUR work. There are three rounds, each one increasingly narrows the theme.
Each of the participants then explains their selections, why they made them. First one from arbitrary images of many genres, second one narrowed down to one genre across many specific scenes, locations, treatments, etc. Last one same subject, same timeframe, same treatment.
It's extremely helpful to get them prepared and asking questions of themselves when preparing their "body of work" for the rest of the workshop. I am sorta-kinda suggesting reversing this for my proposal.
I understand. This kind of thing is not easily solved and hence why after many years of thinking about it I've come to the conclusion the best way to run these and serve the participating photographers as well as the intended viewing audience is to run it far more like an gallery exhibition with a well defined intended audience and have a feedback mechanism that rests on the participants and audience to reflect on how well the final exhibition meets the defined purpose, how well it's received, and is just as much judging the "judges/curators" as the participants that submitted.
I would hope it would also narrow down the submitters to those passionate about the theme as well. I know I love to view exhibitions I'd never attempt to produce as I don't work in many of those genres myself so I'd not consider submission but I would have a lot to say about the curation of such exhibition in terms of how well it was put together ;-)
I agree. I do not like the photo contests as they are currently. You suggestion makes a lot of sense. I have stopped submitting to any photo contests. I would consider submitting photos to one like this. It changes the dynamic. The curators decision might be biased, but there might be less desire to use the arbitrary rules of a "Good Photograph" to the rules of the art of the exhibition.
I am glad I communicated my intent in a way the ANYONE could understand. Especially the part about the participants judging the result of the end product... the exhibition which is the point isn't it...
As a fine art photographer who began in 1957, and who has enjoyed museum and gallery shows of my work, may I suggest that, if you are pursuing a career in photography, you've may want to consider the -other- reason to enter contests: exposure.
I do NOT mean "lots of people will see your work and you'll be instantly famous"(because that's BS) but instead this: each contest you enter, much less the ones that acknowledge your work, goes on your "activity" list. Before a gallery or museum will consider your work for display, they will want proof that you are -actively- pursuing your career.
Whether or not you -win- is not as important to a gallarist or curator, as whether or not you are working at it, and "can deliver the goods."
Think like they do: would you choose an artist who says "well, my church and a local restaurant" showed my images, or the one who can submit a list of 30 different entries to famous contests, even if only half are "2nd place" or "honorable mention" or even just "final round"?
Tracy, that's an interesting point. Who is the contest for, and what is the goal of the photographer are important variables in the equation for sure. In my case, I am not looking to become a professionally recognized fine art photographer. I have a career that funds my photography hobby. As an enthusiast, I am looking for feedback on my progression in this craft, including production of a print. I have only found one forum that provides that sort of feedback, but it is limited to professional/aspiring portrait photographers.
My "legacy goal" is to have a body of work that my daughter and her future children will appreciate when I'm no longer around (hopefully many years from now).
In the meantime, I would find it incredibly helpful if there was a forum where work could be submitted and constructive, actionable feedback was consistently provided. I like what RWB offers in their workshops (and hope to participate at some point), but I'd like to see something more relational over the longer term than a workshop. Something along the lines of a coach or mentor perhaps.
Les and I have been discussing that last point for quite a while. We have a few ideas that we hope will provide some form of what you seek in the context of this community for those that can't travel or to be perfectly candid we couldn't possibly deal with in terms of volume of workshop participants as we host a MAXIMUM of 4 participants for each occasion.
On that note we also do not want to bite off more than we can chew.
I actually have a decade or more (on and off) of judging photographs. I've done so for The Center for Photographic Art , The California State Fair, several online contests, and annual contests for local camera clubs. I actually even set up a website to offer the very service you're asking about, but I realized that it might, like RWB suggests, be a lot to chew, and so I never announced it. If you want to see the site's first iteration (not pretty, but informative) you can visit photoreview.online.
That said, please do NOT book an appointment. Instead, as a one-off, I'll take a look at your images if you contact me directly. You can reach me through my website at valleau.art, and we'll arrange a time and upload.
(If others are interested in this, perhaps with enough encouragement, I'll go ahead, but it -will- not be free, and will entail a fee.)
I totally agree. I have been answering Cafe Arts calls for artists and other juried show prompts and as you mentioned, they are a total crap shoot dependent on the subjective tastes of the curator/juror. As I work in multi media and use alternative printing processes, the digital image I submit in no way represents the actual image which requires a physical presence. I try not to get too excited if I get in or too upset if I don’t. I merely use the call as a way to push me out of whatever comfort zone or creative rut I’ve gotten myself into. It also forces me to look at what I have already created.
The last time we tried this it was not as successful as we had hoped (really bad timing for the most part during Covid lockdowns) but the one thing we did do was ask for actual prints rather than judging a print from a digital file. The logistics of that were not for the faint hearted.
I can imagine. I remember the juried shows we did in university galleries in the old days where everything was shipped in , judged and reshipped back. Some calls are explicit that you don’t get your work back unless you pay for it. I always want mine back.
Yep. Judging too often seems superficial and arbitrary, and mostly rewards images that hew to a rather narrow aesthetic.
We're working on a few things that we hope will serve as a venue and be enjoyable to this community both remote and eventually in person that are more of a celebration of print and useful in more ways that one.
Stay tuned.
My thought on this is the most fair way is to have a panel of photographers do the judging as they do in the PPofA. It is a peer review of what is considered to be the best work of other professionals. When you are in competition with your peers you really find out if your work stands up. When you submit to a competition, you are putting your best work out there whether it is an open judging or with certain criteria of subject matter. The saying, "iron sharpens iron" is very apropo when it comes to submitting your images. I like your idea of a curation committee to put together the best show for the viewing audience.
Excellent post today. My experience with photo contests consists entirely of the one sponsored by the Florida Camera Club Council. If the image does not include fins, feathers or feet, it does not "score" well. And I find the scoring strange in that winners are recognized on the percentage of images scoring at a certain level. For example, the top 5% of images that score above X are awarded blue, then the next 5%, etc. While each image is judged by three people, only the average score is reported. And no critique is provided so the participant can develop their craft. Not sure why I continue participating.
I look forward to hearing about your ideas for this community.
Ps. Without a lot of context, In a couple of our workshops that are highly dependent on the editorial process way before producing the final output, we provide an exercise to the participants to curate/edit/select a set of image out of OUR work. There are three rounds, each one increasingly narrows the theme.
Each of the participants then explains their selections, why they made them. First one from arbitrary images of many genres, second one narrowed down to one genre across many specific scenes, locations, treatments, etc. Last one same subject, same timeframe, same treatment.
It's extremely helpful to get them prepared and asking questions of themselves when preparing their "body of work" for the rest of the workshop. I am sorta-kinda suggesting reversing this for my proposal.
I understand. This kind of thing is not easily solved and hence why after many years of thinking about it I've come to the conclusion the best way to run these and serve the participating photographers as well as the intended viewing audience is to run it far more like an gallery exhibition with a well defined intended audience and have a feedback mechanism that rests on the participants and audience to reflect on how well the final exhibition meets the defined purpose, how well it's received, and is just as much judging the "judges/curators" as the participants that submitted.
I would hope it would also narrow down the submitters to those passionate about the theme as well. I know I love to view exhibitions I'd never attempt to produce as I don't work in many of those genres myself so I'd not consider submission but I would have a lot to say about the curation of such exhibition in terms of how well it was put together ;-)
I agree. I do not like the photo contests as they are currently. You suggestion makes a lot of sense. I have stopped submitting to any photo contests. I would consider submitting photos to one like this. It changes the dynamic. The curators decision might be biased, but there might be less desire to use the arbitrary rules of a "Good Photograph" to the rules of the art of the exhibition.
I am glad I communicated my intent in a way the ANYONE could understand. Especially the part about the participants judging the result of the end product... the exhibition which is the point isn't it...
As a fine art photographer who began in 1957, and who has enjoyed museum and gallery shows of my work, may I suggest that, if you are pursuing a career in photography, you've may want to consider the -other- reason to enter contests: exposure.
I do NOT mean "lots of people will see your work and you'll be instantly famous"(because that's BS) but instead this: each contest you enter, much less the ones that acknowledge your work, goes on your "activity" list. Before a gallery or museum will consider your work for display, they will want proof that you are -actively- pursuing your career.
Whether or not you -win- is not as important to a gallarist or curator, as whether or not you are working at it, and "can deliver the goods."
Think like they do: would you choose an artist who says "well, my church and a local restaurant" showed my images, or the one who can submit a list of 30 different entries to famous contests, even if only half are "2nd place" or "honorable mention" or even just "final round"?
That's just the real world of art.
Tracy, that's an interesting point. Who is the contest for, and what is the goal of the photographer are important variables in the equation for sure. In my case, I am not looking to become a professionally recognized fine art photographer. I have a career that funds my photography hobby. As an enthusiast, I am looking for feedback on my progression in this craft, including production of a print. I have only found one forum that provides that sort of feedback, but it is limited to professional/aspiring portrait photographers.
My "legacy goal" is to have a body of work that my daughter and her future children will appreciate when I'm no longer around (hopefully many years from now).
In the meantime, I would find it incredibly helpful if there was a forum where work could be submitted and constructive, actionable feedback was consistently provided. I like what RWB offers in their workshops (and hope to participate at some point), but I'd like to see something more relational over the longer term than a workshop. Something along the lines of a coach or mentor perhaps.
Les and I have been discussing that last point for quite a while. We have a few ideas that we hope will provide some form of what you seek in the context of this community for those that can't travel or to be perfectly candid we couldn't possibly deal with in terms of volume of workshop participants as we host a MAXIMUM of 4 participants for each occasion.
On that note we also do not want to bite off more than we can chew.
I actually have a decade or more (on and off) of judging photographs. I've done so for The Center for Photographic Art , The California State Fair, several online contests, and annual contests for local camera clubs. I actually even set up a website to offer the very service you're asking about, but I realized that it might, like RWB suggests, be a lot to chew, and so I never announced it. If you want to see the site's first iteration (not pretty, but informative) you can visit photoreview.online.
That said, please do NOT book an appointment. Instead, as a one-off, I'll take a look at your images if you contact me directly. You can reach me through my website at valleau.art, and we'll arrange a time and upload.
(If others are interested in this, perhaps with enough encouragement, I'll go ahead, but it -will- not be free, and will entail a fee.)