Commiserating with you cus my 2013 Mac Pro also conked out this year 😩 But idk why. It just won’t boot up, only the lights go on but nothing of it is actually powered on. I inherited it, and it worked beautifully for the copywork I was doing in my studio. I’m often switching between Windows and Mac systems day to day, but the Mac Mini is a serious contender of a replacement for what I need in that portion of my studio. Thanks for your insights about this!
I too said a sad farewell to Mac of 2015, mostly triggered due to LR updates. I was in the middle of printing for an exhibit and LR suddenly did not accept the 17 x 22 inch print size. Writing, calling Adobe and even Tim Grey had no explanation but tried to explain how to print as as if I never printed before. Then LR admitted it (that paper size) was part of an unpublished update that would not be fixed for months. The nightmare lifted LR fixed (maybe after too many hours on the phone and getting top managers) that it was fixed. Soon after the new LR upgrade come so did trip to B&H and a new computer, oops two new computers. I fed the economy. Upgrades need downgrades.
After 25 years of running Macs, I'm done. I do just a bit more than a typical photo or video workflow (some data analysis and visualisation), and they just aren't capable of sophisticated networking. So, I'm biting the bullet and starting anew in Linux. It's a ride.
I run a bunch of other boxes (actually open frame) machines with RTX 3090's etc with linux and other OS's but I use a Mac for all my photo/design work... The other stuff is either compute farm or virtual machine hosts for my dev/ops stuff. Would love to know what networking you need to do that you cannot do on a Mac as that's a fairly broad topic.
I didn't structure that sentence very well. It's not really networking per se that i struggle with as much as shares from servers being unreliably handled. I run into road blocks semi-constantly, and 10 years ago I didn't. Add in the repair challenges, and I just feel like the business philosophy of Apple has evolved in a direction that's not compatible with my own trajectory. I'd say my relationship with Adobe is more acrimonious btw. My take is that by not trying to make difficult compromises and instead trying to work in a very different ecosystem that has distinct and potentially much broader potential, I might be better served. There will be alternative compromises though, but they'll mostly be more politically palatable.
Got it... I kind of try to use the right tool for the job at hand that causes the least resistance. FYI I use Microsoft RDP a lot... and yes I use RDP to remote to my other servers so I don't need to be physically at many of my other computing resources that are not UI intensive.
Thank you for this. I have the Mac Pro "trash can" too that I use as a back up to my Mac Mini ( M1) I had no idea that the newest version of LR will not work on the old Mac Pro. This article may have saved me a lot of pain in the future. Interestingly I have the new Mac Mini as my soon to purchase item as an upgrade to my older Mac Mini. What are the cases where LR and PS would benefit from a lot more ram?
This is by no means comprehensive but any kind of multiple RAW image operation that results in a single combined image such as HDR merging or Panorama stitching will use a considerble amount of RAM based on how many RAW files are being merged. The more images, the more RAM you'll need to make that operation speedy. In many cases it will work but the more RAM you have the quicker it will be. Take a look at "Art Is Right" YouTube channel in his performance tests regarding HDR and Panorama merging and how much RAM matters for large numbers of RAW file merges. It's more important than the speed of processors and number of cores.
If you only do that occasionally the speed-up may not be worth the cost, if you do that every day, that may be a good justification. The other RAM dependent operation is the creation and manipulation of HUGE photoshop files that are near or exceed the amount of RAM, especially if you have many other apps open and doing work at the same time. Again, I rarely make huge Photoshop files but some people do as a matter of their normal workflow on a daily basis.
RB but sitting at Les' computer. Feel free to write back with your specific workflows and I'll comment as best I can based on my experience with 16, 32, and 64 gig machines.
Depends on what you do... it's easy to configure an M4 Mac Mini with Pro processor so it costs more than a Studio. VERY generally speaking the Studios are going to get you more GPU cores and more video encoder cores which lean more towards fast video processing but can impact some photo operations (AI noise removal and a few others like massive export operations of 1000+ large files). From tests I've seen but not done myself, an M4 Mac Mini Pro has a large overlap of the current studio models for many, many photo and video operations.
Yes that's what I'm reading. I'm mostly using film so when in the digital realm I'll keep my adjustments to whatever could be done in a darkroom by a reasonably skilled operator. However, When I shoot with my Nikon Z8 I'm very happy to use AI noise reduction, AI generative fill/removal etc. which is why I'm thinking waiting for an M4 Max Studio or Ultra may be a good way to future-proof.
NOTHING in the digital world is future proof. In the case of the two machines we just had to replace it has far more to do with the software companies supporting the older hardware. Both of those now retired machines were extremely capable and based on OUR daily work-flow we had no serious obstructions to using them.
Perfect timing Bob, my iMac 27” with 32gigs of Ram has reached that same expiration date for my LR & PS apps. New it was coming but it still sucks. I’m looking at getting a Mac Studio with 64gigs of ram but not sure about the processor and hard drive upgrades. As for processor , is it worth the upgrade for additional 38 core GPU ? As for internal HD , I have read elsewhere that is smarter cost wise to buy external SSD’s . I was thinking of getting 1TB for my apps and docs and an external for LR catalog as well as photo library. I currently use a mirrored drive for all photos. Appreciate your expertise.
Ps. Remember the M4 studio will be coming out (probably next year)... There are a lot of cheaper options than the current M2 studio (like a M4 Mini... that may get you through a year or two until there are better studio options including used M2's out there). You have to deal with a monitor as well. Don't discount an adequately spec'd M4 mini for a year or two. You'll probably get a lot of that money back if you upgrade given it's a brand new chip.
The specs you are considering will certainly do the job and more. I'd skip the "unbinned" chip with the extra GPU's if you are on a budget. Remember, the Studio/Max chip already has more GPU than the Pro. I happen to have the "big Max chip" but I didn't pay for it, it was pretty much free given the great deal I got on it (used) at MORE than $1300 less than new spec'd identically.
Thank you. I am a commercial photographer. I have about 1.2 million images in my main LR catalog. I use LR, PS and some Final Cut pro for the video that I do. Mostly drone videos. A small about of video. With LR and PS we are using AI retouching more and more. I am going to purchase a new Mac Mini and was wondering about your thoughts on which model and how much ram to get. Is the maxed out version worth it?
I would get the biggest/best processor ("Pro") and the 32G+ memory. Only you can figure out how much internal SSD you will need. Or wait for the M4 Studio to possibly get the MAX version. The only reason I suggest the hefty processor for you is the AI retouching and how much of it you probably want to do. The potential bump in performance of those kinds of edits and large batch/export operations may be worth it to you as time=money. I am basing this on the size of your image library and making large assumptions you ingest and process a lot of images.
If that is not true you can get away with a lot less.
Take a look at "Art is Right" on you tube. His latest videos do a really good job at helping you pick based on your workload. DO NOT just use his summaries, they are worthless in terms of specifics. Go through his actual bench marks based on specific functions and pause it when he shows the results to fully take in the results for workflows that are relevant to you.
Commiserating with you cus my 2013 Mac Pro also conked out this year 😩 But idk why. It just won’t boot up, only the lights go on but nothing of it is actually powered on. I inherited it, and it worked beautifully for the copywork I was doing in my studio. I’m often switching between Windows and Mac systems day to day, but the Mac Mini is a serious contender of a replacement for what I need in that portion of my studio. Thanks for your insights about this!
Feel free to reach out as you do your shopping and we'll share our thoughts...
I too said a sad farewell to Mac of 2015, mostly triggered due to LR updates. I was in the middle of printing for an exhibit and LR suddenly did not accept the 17 x 22 inch print size. Writing, calling Adobe and even Tim Grey had no explanation but tried to explain how to print as as if I never printed before. Then LR admitted it (that paper size) was part of an unpublished update that would not be fixed for months. The nightmare lifted LR fixed (maybe after too many hours on the phone and getting top managers) that it was fixed. Soon after the new LR upgrade come so did trip to B&H and a new computer, oops two new computers. I fed the economy. Upgrades need downgrades.
After 25 years of running Macs, I'm done. I do just a bit more than a typical photo or video workflow (some data analysis and visualisation), and they just aren't capable of sophisticated networking. So, I'm biting the bullet and starting anew in Linux. It's a ride.
I run a bunch of other boxes (actually open frame) machines with RTX 3090's etc with linux and other OS's but I use a Mac for all my photo/design work... The other stuff is either compute farm or virtual machine hosts for my dev/ops stuff. Would love to know what networking you need to do that you cannot do on a Mac as that's a fairly broad topic.
I didn't structure that sentence very well. It's not really networking per se that i struggle with as much as shares from servers being unreliably handled. I run into road blocks semi-constantly, and 10 years ago I didn't. Add in the repair challenges, and I just feel like the business philosophy of Apple has evolved in a direction that's not compatible with my own trajectory. I'd say my relationship with Adobe is more acrimonious btw. My take is that by not trying to make difficult compromises and instead trying to work in a very different ecosystem that has distinct and potentially much broader potential, I might be better served. There will be alternative compromises though, but they'll mostly be more politically palatable.
Got it... I kind of try to use the right tool for the job at hand that causes the least resistance. FYI I use Microsoft RDP a lot... and yes I use RDP to remote to my other servers so I don't need to be physically at many of my other computing resources that are not UI intensive.
Thank you for this. I have the Mac Pro "trash can" too that I use as a back up to my Mac Mini ( M1) I had no idea that the newest version of LR will not work on the old Mac Pro. This article may have saved me a lot of pain in the future. Interestingly I have the new Mac Mini as my soon to purchase item as an upgrade to my older Mac Mini. What are the cases where LR and PS would benefit from a lot more ram?
Paul,
This is by no means comprehensive but any kind of multiple RAW image operation that results in a single combined image such as HDR merging or Panorama stitching will use a considerble amount of RAM based on how many RAW files are being merged. The more images, the more RAM you'll need to make that operation speedy. In many cases it will work but the more RAM you have the quicker it will be. Take a look at "Art Is Right" YouTube channel in his performance tests regarding HDR and Panorama merging and how much RAM matters for large numbers of RAW file merges. It's more important than the speed of processors and number of cores.
If you only do that occasionally the speed-up may not be worth the cost, if you do that every day, that may be a good justification. The other RAM dependent operation is the creation and manipulation of HUGE photoshop files that are near or exceed the amount of RAM, especially if you have many other apps open and doing work at the same time. Again, I rarely make huge Photoshop files but some people do as a matter of their normal workflow on a daily basis.
RB but sitting at Les' computer. Feel free to write back with your specific workflows and I'll comment as best I can based on my experience with 16, 32, and 64 gig machines.
Wondering whether to get the new Mac Mini M4 Pro or wait for the base M4 Studio. I've heard that the Mini M4 Pro maxes out its fan a lot.
Depends on what you do... it's easy to configure an M4 Mac Mini with Pro processor so it costs more than a Studio. VERY generally speaking the Studios are going to get you more GPU cores and more video encoder cores which lean more towards fast video processing but can impact some photo operations (AI noise removal and a few others like massive export operations of 1000+ large files). From tests I've seen but not done myself, an M4 Mac Mini Pro has a large overlap of the current studio models for many, many photo and video operations.
Yes that's what I'm reading. I'm mostly using film so when in the digital realm I'll keep my adjustments to whatever could be done in a darkroom by a reasonably skilled operator. However, When I shoot with my Nikon Z8 I'm very happy to use AI noise reduction, AI generative fill/removal etc. which is why I'm thinking waiting for an M4 Max Studio or Ultra may be a good way to future-proof.
NOTHING in the digital world is future proof. In the case of the two machines we just had to replace it has far more to do with the software companies supporting the older hardware. Both of those now retired machines were extremely capable and based on OUR daily work-flow we had no serious obstructions to using them.
Perfect timing Bob, my iMac 27” with 32gigs of Ram has reached that same expiration date for my LR & PS apps. New it was coming but it still sucks. I’m looking at getting a Mac Studio with 64gigs of ram but not sure about the processor and hard drive upgrades. As for processor , is it worth the upgrade for additional 38 core GPU ? As for internal HD , I have read elsewhere that is smarter cost wise to buy external SSD’s . I was thinking of getting 1TB for my apps and docs and an external for LR catalog as well as photo library. I currently use a mirrored drive for all photos. Appreciate your expertise.
Ps. Remember the M4 studio will be coming out (probably next year)... There are a lot of cheaper options than the current M2 studio (like a M4 Mini... that may get you through a year or two until there are better studio options including used M2's out there). You have to deal with a monitor as well. Don't discount an adequately spec'd M4 mini for a year or two. You'll probably get a lot of that money back if you upgrade given it's a brand new chip.
The specs you are considering will certainly do the job and more. I'd skip the "unbinned" chip with the extra GPU's if you are on a budget. Remember, the Studio/Max chip already has more GPU than the Pro. I happen to have the "big Max chip" but I didn't pay for it, it was pretty much free given the great deal I got on it (used) at MORE than $1300 less than new spec'd identically.
Thank you. I am a commercial photographer. I have about 1.2 million images in my main LR catalog. I use LR, PS and some Final Cut pro for the video that I do. Mostly drone videos. A small about of video. With LR and PS we are using AI retouching more and more. I am going to purchase a new Mac Mini and was wondering about your thoughts on which model and how much ram to get. Is the maxed out version worth it?
I would get the biggest/best processor ("Pro") and the 32G+ memory. Only you can figure out how much internal SSD you will need. Or wait for the M4 Studio to possibly get the MAX version. The only reason I suggest the hefty processor for you is the AI retouching and how much of it you probably want to do. The potential bump in performance of those kinds of edits and large batch/export operations may be worth it to you as time=money. I am basing this on the size of your image library and making large assumptions you ingest and process a lot of images.
If that is not true you can get away with a lot less.
Take a look at "Art is Right" on you tube. His latest videos do a really good job at helping you pick based on your workload. DO NOT just use his summaries, they are worthless in terms of specifics. Go through his actual bench marks based on specific functions and pause it when he shows the results to fully take in the results for workflows that are relevant to you.
'
RB
Thank you.